I noticed more than a couple responses to the threads about 9/8's. So here is my effort to add fuel to the fire.... ; )

Last year I asked the opinions of many different people about the meaning of the Turkish word karşılama. I got around 20 responses. i have only provided a general summation of the main points and a few of the responses.

The folks i asked range from Americans who have seriously studied Turkish music for a long time, or are in fact professional Turkish musicians as well as non-musician Turks. I should say I have withheld the names of the people but if they are out there and wish to be identified, I am happy to do that.

here were my questions:

1. What is the correct Turkish spelling?

2. What is the actual /literal meaning of the word ?

3. What does it mean to an average Turkish person?

4. Is it the name for a specific dance?

5. Is it a name for a specific rhythm? or style of music?

6. If 5 so, is it necessarily done in 9/8 or 9/4 time signatures?

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to sum it up...seems what people are saying is this:

- it means to greet/meet
- it usually is a 9/8 rhythm variation but can also be a 2/4, 5/8. or 10/8
- it is not referring to a specific beat, but a dance
- there are many areas that use the word for a dance but they differ in style

person #1
Karsilama is spelled s with a comma attached at the bottom(ed. note : making it a 'sh', also the "i' has no dot making it a sound something like the vowel sound in the word 'pit', but we don't really have the sound), literally means the act of meeting or greeting, meaning the same thing to a turkish speaker in everyday usage, which is a song and accompanied dance usually by women but also danced with men, has 5/8 or 9/8 rhythm, common in the Black Sea area of turkey.

person #2

The most musical definition in there, said "folk music played when meeting a bridal procession".
It appears to be related to the verb Karsilamak, which means "to go to meet, to welcome". Second meaning is "to be sufficient to meet a need", such as the pay was enough, etc.
Also related to Karsi, "the place opposite, facing, opposing".

person #3
1. turkish spelling:
Karşılama

2. What is the actual /literal meaning of the word ?
Refers to a dance where couples dance face-to-face. Derived from the root karş, meaning to oppose or be opposite to.

3. What does it mean to an average Turkish person?
Hard to say: would have regional connotations. In the Aegean, they dance a particular zeybek(ed. note: a looong 18) similar to Thracian karşılamas that everyone else would call karşılama, but there it's called something different.

4. Is it the name for a specific dance?
Sometimes, sometimes the dances go by other names and it's called that generically from outside looking at a particular regional practice.

5. Is it a name for a specific rhythm? or style of music?
Sometimes it refers to the medium or fast tempo 9/8 rhythm. However, I've also heard of 2/4 karşılamas. Turks aren't real consistent with their terminology.

6. If 5 so, is it necessarily done in 9/8 or 9/4 time signatures?
9/8 or 9/16 typically

person#4
1. What is the correct Turkish spelling?
karşılama

2. What is the actual /literal meaning of the word
It comes from the verb karşılamak, to meet or to face, which is from the word "karşı", across from / against. In the context of the dance it refers to a dance done face to face. The Greeks call it both "karsilamas" and "antikristos" which means the same thing.

3. What does it mean to an average Turkish person?
In the context of dance, it generally means a 9/8 dance done face to face.

4. Is it the name for a specific dance?
Different areas have their own versions and styles. What they seem to have in comm is that they are danced facing each other (though sometimes one might dance it solo as well) and tend to be in 9/8

5. Is it a name for a specific rhythm? or style of music?
In areas where the dance is done/known it refers to certain 9/8s. But not all 9/8s are necessarily karsilama.

6. If 5 so, is it necessarily done in 9/8 or 9/4 time signatures?
I have never heard of any karsilamas in any other rhythm than 9, but I'm not a Turkish folk dance expert.

person #5
KARŞILAMA
the fifth letter is not an "s" but "ş" the one with a tail:)
it means meeting, greeting, compensation, but more like reception and welcome...all of them together may give you the sense.
I believe you should check the folkloric issues of Turkish music, because in Turkey from official receptions to formal welcomes the guest is welcomed by a folklore dance group, which is called "karşilama". I am not quiet sure but as far as know there is no any rhythms called karşilama.

person #6
1. What is the correct Turkish spelling?
K-A-R-S (with a cedilla under it)-I (undotted)-L-A-M-A [my e-mail program won't reproduce those characters so it is consistently misspelled below].

2. What is the actual /literal meaning of the word ?
It literally means "(an instance of) coming to meet/greet/welcome (someone)":
Karsi (with s-cedilla and undotted-i) = "across from/facing" and -lama
is a "verbal noun suffix" (i.e., turns the verb "karsilamak" -- to meet
and greet an arriving party -- into a noun).

3. What does it mean to an average Turkish person?
It's known both in the above sense and as a dance or dance rhythm (in 9/8); I have seen Turkish TV talk shows on which the audience claps the rhythm (clap [and] clap [and] clap [and] clap [and and]) several times in order to welcome a special guest coming on stage -- in other words the rhythm is directly if symbolically associated with the word and it's meaning of "welcome" (though you wouldn't use the word karsilama to mean "welcome!"). Traditionally a tune in this rhythm would be played to welcome guests to a wedding, and at a bar/meyhane/cabaret to announce that the evening's entertainment was beginning and to draw customers inside the establishment (i.e., welcome them in).

4. Is it the name for a specific dance?
Ethno-choreographer Arzu Öztürkmen writes in "Dance and Identity in
Turkey," volume 6 of The Garland Encyclopedia of World Music (2002),
"The karsilama genre is seen mostly in Thrace and is in some ways
similar to the Balkan hora: these Thracian dances are characterized by
moving the feet rapidly and rhythmically and pulling the legs up in
various ways. Dancers in a karsilama group link their little fingers;
sometimes they face one another while snapping their fingers."

In my experience it may also be used to describe non-partnered,
non-group (but probably not strictly solo) dancing (e.g., in bars or
at weddings) in a fast 9 rhythm.

5. Is it a name for a specific rhythm? or style of music?
For me the term designates any fast *9/8* with the general structure
Dum (and) Tek (and) Dum (and) Tek-ti-ka (or ending in tek-ka-and)--
that is 2+2+2+3 (i.e., not a slow 9 or one with with the 3 in any other position). However apparently there are other names for certain specific iterations of 2+2+2+3 among folk dancers, and ethnomusicologist Irene Markoff notes in her 2002 "Aspects of Turkish Folk Music Theory" (in the same volume of the Garland cited above) that the term karsilama as a name for a rhythm/dance form may also be found in the Black Sea and Bolu regions, and may also be configured 2+3+2+3 (NB a 10 rather than a 9) or 3+2+2+2 -- in my opinion these are generally less well known in Turkey, at least under the name karsilama.

6. If 5 so, is it necessarily done in 9/8 or 9/4 time signatures?
Inasmuch as the 8th-note division implies that it is to be performed
faster than a quarter-note division, I'd say usually 9/8. I've most often seen slower forms of 9, or forms that need a lot of 16th-note elaborations (like zeybek-s and agir roman-s) written in 9/4 -- but many practicing musicians (particularly Roman) are not musically literate anyway and would not recognize the terms "9/8" and "9/4."

person #8

karsilama = 9/8 = roman = romany = turkish gypsy
their meaning is same.
karsilama = Minimum 2 people dance cross to each other. So you will ask " many people dance by himself/herself." it is normal in show preferences. 2 people dance like small compation. which one is better than the other. Sometimes for be enjoy the dance with his/her body. share the same feeling/soul together.

9/8 = people dance with 9/8 ryht. during the karsilama = 9/8 = roman = romany = turkish gypsy.

roman = romany = turkish gypsy => this is turkish gypsy people dance name. Generally turkish gypsy's dance karsilama = 9/8 = roman

person #9
1. What is the correct Turkish spelling? Karşılamak (verb) Karşılama (noun)
2. What is the actual /literal meaning of the word ? 1.To go to meet, welome 2. to respond 3. to cover, meet 4. to prevent
1. a meeting, greeting, reception, welcome.
3. What does it mean to an average Turkish person? Please look at number two.
4. Is it the name for a specific dance? Yes, we have a specific tradational dance which name is Karşılama. It is a folklore from Giresun, Ordu. (a Black Sea area)

and yet a few more things to concern one and give nightmares:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karsilama
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turk...olk_dances

well there you go.... as with all of this stuff...it varies considerably from place to place and region to region.

best,
david